The Allender Center Podcast

As we enter the holiday season with anticipation, there are times when we will also feel, well… disappointed. How do we honor disappointment without being bound by it? Dan and Becky Allender talk through their experiences with disappointment, how the body reacts when faced with disappointment, and the ways in which we can tend to our disappointments and still find hope.

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As nature slows down, many of us are gearing up for a busy holiday season - beginning with Thanksgiving next week.

Dan and Becky Allender unpack some of the nostalgia that surrounds the holiday, the tensions that arise from unmet expectations or clashing opinions, and what we can mindfully bring to the Thanksgiving table - and what can be left at the door.

So as we enter into this season of “holiday madness,” as Dan puts it, we hope you can pause to consider what this time of year means for you, and how you can help foster a season of goodness for you and the people in your life.

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Last month, we invited our social media followers to send in questions that they would like to hear Dan Allender address. We are honored that so many of you sent in questions and comments. 

We’ll begin by addressing some of the questions about confronting past trauma in general, and trauma involving families of origin in particular. What if our past trauma is too painful to bear? Should we address our parents about trauma in our upbringing? How do we stop the trauma cycle with our own children? 

Dan addresses these questions and more in this episode, hosted by Melissa Dowell from the Allender Center. 

Listeners and friends - we are grateful for your questions. Stay tuned for more episodes in the future in which we’ll unpack more of the questions that were submitted.

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Blaine Hogan joins Dr. Dan Allender on the podcast this week to talk about his new book, “Exit the Cave: Embracing a Life of Courage, Creativity, and Radical Imagination.” Blaine holds a Master of Arts in Theology and Culture from the Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. It was during his time at the Seattle School that he says, “It was time to go back to those stories, to those shadows, because I was reenacting them in so many heartbreaking ways to myself and to others.” In this conversation, Blaine describes his process of finding the goodness in his story, and how embracing his story allowed him to express his creativity more fully.

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We recently wrapped up the Allender Center Marriage Conference with Dan and Becky Allender and Steve and Lisa Call of The Reconnect Institute. So as our team is reflecting on that incredible event and gearing up for next spring’s Marriage Enrichment Retreat, we thought we'd go back into the archives to revisit this conversation between the Allenders and the Calls.

In this episode from 2020, the two couples talk about engaging triggers in a marriage. Whether you are married or not, we hope this topic will help you in any of your close relationships with a spouse, friend, or family member, and will prompt you to consider the triggers you have - and the triggers you notice in those close to you.

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Does time really heal all wounds? After recently celebrating their respective 70th birthdays, Dan and Becky Allender sat down to look back over the decades with a different awareness, considering the trauma, the joy, the losses, and the blessings.

They also explore the saying that “time heals all wounds” and explain why trauma does not honor time. The good news is that, instead of hoping that the passage of time will allow us to heal, we can step in and own our stories and begin to experience the redemption and restoration that God has for us.

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Author and counselor Chris Bruno shares what it means to become a “sage” - recovering exiled parts of ourselves, gleaning the wisdom  from our stories, and sharing that wisdom generatively with others. 

Wherever you are along your life journey, we think you’ll find a new perspective in this episode that can help you examine your story and your own passage into the role of sage.

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Renee Begay, ministry leader and co-founder of Nations Ministry, joins us this week on the podcast. Renee is a member of the Zuni tribe and shares with us her journey of holding and honoring her Indigenous cultural identity within the Western cultural context of her Christian faith.

This conversation is a beautiful reminder that we are invited to know our stories, value our unique identities, and know that we were each created to reveal the image of God in unique ways.

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Our guest this week is Pastor James White, longtime friend of co-host Linda Royster. James is a highly sought out consultant, speaker and facilitator for several organizations and companies on issues relating to inclusion, equity and diversity.

James White, Linda Royster, and Dan Allender discuss the distinct narratives in scripture of the so-called “marginalized,” the narratives of race that have been created and embedded into our Western culture to dehumanize the “other,” and the opportunities we have to experience shalom when we truly listen to one another’s narratives.

“Whenever we talk about doing this work of diversity, equity, inclusion, we make it seem like it's just for marginalized people to gain power. I would say it’s so that we all can become the humans that God designed us to be,” says James White.

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This week, we’re joined by Rev. Michael S. Chen, with Linda Royster co-hosting alongside Dr. Dan Allender. 

 

As we lean in to listening to one another’s voices, we’re examining the impact of the oppressive systems on our individual and collective stories, and naming the more subtle systems of division, comparison, stereotypes, fear, and distrust that may impact our ability to truly listen.

 

Why are these conversations so important? As Michaen Chen points out, without the perspectives of others who also bear the image of God, we will have an impoverished view of who God is.

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This week, we’re revisiting a conversation from 2018 between Dr. Dan Allender and Dr. Angela Parker, Professor at The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology, as they explore the passage of 1 Corinthians 4:8-13. Dr. Parker starts by offering some context about the port city of Corinth and the people who make up the church Paul is writing to. It’s a divided city, concerned with hierarchy and proximity to power.

Dr. Parker challenges us to consider Paul’s ethnicity, gender, and position as we wonder about “what might be going on underneath the text,” which also invites us to wrestle with our own nuanced identities as readers of the text.

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“Marginalization is profoundly violent,” states Linda Royster in this week’s conversation with Dan Allender. Linda is the Strategic Alliances Manager, Lead Instructor, and Co-Facilitator of the Story Workshop for Racial Trauma and Healing at The Allender Center.

From the very beginning, this conversation challenges the use of the term “marginalized.” As we engage topics such as race, gender, and cultural norms, this conversation sets the stage and reminds us to enter the conversation with the desire to listen - really listen - to voices that are often dismissed or diminished.

Linda reminds us that listening well “requires a willingness to mature, to go beyond being the center of your own world and to actually take into consideration that there is value outside of yourself.”

 

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As we transition into the fall season, Dan and Becky Allender take a moment to reflect on their summer: the desires they had, the disappointments they felt, and the surprising lessons learned when things didn’t go as planned.

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We’re joined again by author John Eldredge to talk about the hope that we can hold onto as we work through the collective and personal trauma of the COVID-19 pandemic. This is not accomplished through a to-do list, but rather through small practices that gently guide us deeper into the hope and restoration that God offers.


John’s latest book, “Resilient: Restoring Your Weary Soul in These Turbulent Times,” identifies the warning signs of post-pandemic weariness while also pointing to the resilient human spirit and the hope we have in God. 

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A lost train of thought, a lost sense of motivation, a lost temper… these are just some of the things we may have lost as a result of the personal and global trauma of the pandemic. As restrictions have lifted, many of us are rushing for relief, finding comfort in the things we lost like dining out, going to concerts, and taking vacations. While there’s nothing wrong with enjoying these activities, we may be using them as quick fixes to soothe the pain and isolation experienced over the past two years.

Our guest this week, John Eldredge, has written about the need for acknowledging the trauma from the COVID-19 pandemic in his latest book, “Resilient: Restoring Your Weary Soul in These Turbulent Times.” In this conversation with Dr. Dan Allender, John points out the warning signs of post-pandemic weariness while also pointing to the resilient human spirit and the hope we have in God. 

We invite you to slow your pace for the next half hour or so to thoughtfully consider this conversation with us. 

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This week, Dr. Dan Allender, Dr. Chelle Stearns, and Matthias Roberts, MA, reconvene to continue their conversation about being “lost at sea.”

Their conversation centers around the watery ritual of baptism: the terrifying acts of faith as we enter the murky waters and the renewal and redemption that God has for us. With deeply personal stories and compelling theological perspectives, we hope this conversation invites you to consider this ritual of renewal in new ways.

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When we are rocked by trauma, loss, chaos, and uncertainty, it can feel like we are “lost at sea” without an anchor or clear direction. How do we begin to make sense of our lives and what we hold as true when we have left a familiar land?

Join Dr. Dan Allender for part one of this two-part conversation with Dr. Chelle Stearns and Matthias Roberts as they reflect on their recent class at The Seattle School for Theology and Psychology called, “Lost at Sea.” 

Next week, we’ll continue the discussion around rituals that can anchor us in hope and help us make sense of our lives in the midst of ambiguous waters.

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In the third and final episode in our “Replay and Rest” series, we’ll revisit a conversation between Dan and Becky Allender as they reflect on the profound depths of rest we are invited to in Psalm 131.

We know that rest is of the utmost importance in order to recover from the toll that stress takes on our bodies, our minds, and our hearts. Here at The Allender Center, we are practicing what we teach and many of our team members are taking reduced work hours and vacation time during the month of July. In that spirit, we are choosing to re-air three popular past episodes that center around the theme of rest this month. Even if you have heard these before, we hope that you will take the time to listen, reflect, and purposely make space for rest in your own life.

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The second episode in our “Replay and Rest” series is a reflection from Dr. Dan Allender during his sabbatical from teaching back in 2015. We hope that listening back to this portion of Dan's story will serve as an encouragement to examine our own attitudes towards rest.

We know that rest is of the utmost importance in order to recover from the toll that stress takes on our bodies, our minds, and our hearts. Here at The Allender Center, we are practicing what we teach and many of our team members are taking reduced work hours and vacation time during the month of July. In that spirit, we are choosing to re-air three popular past episodes that center around the theme of rest this month. Even if you have heard these before, we hope that you will take the time to listen, reflect, and purposely make space for rest in your own life.

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We know that rest is of the utmost importance in order to recover from the toll that stress takes on our bodies, our minds, and our hearts. Here at The Allender Center, we are practicing what we teach and many of our team members are taking reduced work hours and vacation time during the month of July. In that spirit, we are choosing to re-air three popular past episodes that center around the theme of rest this month. Even if you have heard these before, we hope that you will take the time to listen, reflect, and purposely make space for rest in your own life.

The first episode is one of our most-downloaded episodes of all time. This discussion with Jeanette White, the Executive Director of the Allender Center, and Rachel Sanchez, the Program Manager of the Center for Transforming Engagement, contains practical grounding techniques that can help you address stress in the moment.

We invite you to revisit “Self Care with Practical Grounding Techniques” with us and be sure to check out the linked resources, too.

Resources

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In case you missed the title of this episode, the big news is that our beloved co-host of The Allender Center Podcast, Rachael Clinton Chen, will be taking some time away as she and her husband prepare to welcome a new baby into their lives. 

Rachael reflects on her journey so far as she chats with Dan Allender in what will be her final episode for the next few months. Please join us in wishing Rachael all the best, and as she says in her closing statement of this podcast: “See you on the other side.”

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How did we get here? In our divided nation - and in our fragmenting churches - fear and hatred are running rampant. 

This week, Dan Allender speaks with Pete Wehner, who is an in-residence Senior Fellow at The Trinity Forum, an author, and a contributor to publications such as the New York Times and The Atlantic. 

Their conversation is an invitation to those of us within the body of Christ to consider the factors that influence our own stories, our faith, our political views, and our relationships with others.

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How did we get here? In our divided nation - and in our fragmenting churches - fear and hatred are running rampant. 

This week, Dan Allender speaks with Pete Wehner, who is an in-residence Senior Fellow at The Trinity Forum, an author, and a contributor to publications such as the New York Times and The Atlantic. Their conversation is an invitation to those of us within the body of Christ to consider the factors that influence our own stories, our faith, our political views, and our relationships with others.

Direct download: TAC436-Edited.mp3
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We’re continuing with the second part of the conversation with Cole Arthur Riley, author of “This Here Flesh,” co-hosted by Rachael Clinton Chen and Linda Royster from The Allender Center. We’ll drop back into the discussion as Rachael asks Cole about the ways she has encountered God in the midst of encountering the trauma and horrors of her own story.

If you missed the first part, you can go to the previous episode entitled, "This Here Flesh with Cole Arthur Riley, Part 1" to hear Cole speak about the impact of her family of origin on her life.

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Rachael Clinton Chen is joined by Linda Royster from The Allender Center as they co-host this conversation with a very special guest. Cole Arthur Riley is the creator of Black Liturgies, a space for Black spiritual words of liberation, lament, rage, and rest; and a project of The Center for Dignity and Contemplation where she serves as Executive Curator. She is the author of the New York Times best selling book, This Here Flesh.

In the first part of this conversation, Cole talks about the impact of her family of origin and how she came to tell her story. Be sure to stay tuned for the conclusion of this conversation in next week’s podcast episode, in which Cole will share how her story led her to a new understanding of the Divine.

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In this week’s episode, Dan Allender speaks with one of the driving forces behind The Allender Center: Kalee Vandergrift Porter, the Director of Business Development. Kalee shares her journey of being drawn to chaos, grappling with the expectations put onto her growing up, and discovering her own voice in her story.

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In this episode, Dan Allender interviews his boss, Jeanette White, who is the Executive Director of The Allender Center. You will get to hear some of the themes of Jeanette’s story, from her work in trauma care with The Allender Center to her personal encounters with trauma.

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If you’ve just started following the Allender Center, or even if you’ve been around for a while, you may know us as an organization that holds space for healing from trauma and abuse. You may wonder why we place so much emphasis on story.

This continued interview of Dan Allender by his co-host, Rachael Clinton Chen, reveals the history of the inception of the Allender Center, why story is at the core of our work, and the reason we believe each of our stories are the key to discovering real meaning and connection to ourselves, to God, and to others.

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In the first of this two-part series, Rachael Clinton Chen interviews Dan Allender about the origins of his work in helping people address and heal sexual abuse. You’ll drop into Dan’s story in the mid-1980s as he was finishing his doctoral studies. He was asked a question by one of his clients: “What do you know about sexual abuse?”

At the time, this very prevalent issue was not being addressed in secular culture, let alone by the church. Listen to how Dan grew into his unique role as a therapist, teacher, and innovative leader to help bring healing and transformation to those who have suffered harm and abuse.

Please note this does discuss the sensitive topic of sexual abuse and may not be suitable for some listeners.

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As we continue our discussion about spiritual abuse, this week we’re looking at its impacts and how we can begin to move towards healing.

If this is a subject you’d like to continue to explore, or if you’d like to share this material with a loved one, we have a list of more articles, podcasts, and online learning opportunities in the show notes of today’s episode.

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We recently re-released the recording of the Confronting Spiritual Abuse webinar led by Rachael Clinton Chen, so we’re also revisiting the topic of spiritual abuse here on the podcast. This week, Dan Allender interviews Rachael Clinton Chen about her experiences with spiritual abuse, how she started teaching on this topic, and how people can identify spiritually abusive people and systems that they encounter.

We invite you to stay tuned for the second part of this conversation next week. If you’d like to go deeper into this topic, consider enrolling in the “Confronting Spiritual Abuse Re-Release.” This is a full day of teaching from Rachael Clinton Chen that you may go through at your own pace. 

We offer this information not only to expose the harm, but because we believe that healing is possible. By doing this work, you can begin to reclaim spiritual beliefs and practices and reconnect with God and others in a deeper way.

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Dan and Rachael continue their conversation from last week about post-traumatic stress. Once we identify and acknowledge it, how do we offer care for ourselves and those around us?

We hope this conversation inspires you to  contemplate some of the simple self-care practices and rituals you can implement in your own life, and the ways in which you can tend to yourself and others with mercy and care.

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Discussing the topic of post-traumatic stress can feel particularly overwhelming because so many of us are currently in a state of ongoing post-traumatic stress. Dan and Rachael approach this conversation feeling weary, yet determined to unpack the impacts of PTSD so that we all might have more awareness, understanding, and grace for ourselves and those around us. We especially acknowledge the leaders and helpers - healthcare workers, teachers, parents, friends, and family members helping loved ones.

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As we approach Easter, Dan and Rachael consider the resurrection and the promise it holds for our own stories. The resurrection is not meant to dismiss suffering, but to give us hope that there is something on the other side of our suffering.
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In this continued conversation on what it means to be wholehearted, Dan and Rachael ask one another - and you, dear listeners - to reflect on moments of wholeheartedness in our lives. These are the times when we are most present, most connected, and most alive. These are also the times when we can glimpse the fullness and glory of God.

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What do you understand wholeheartedness to be? It often feels like an unattainable state, especially in this fallen world. 

In this conversation, Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen break down their experiences with becoming more wholehearted: the desire for its joy, the shame that often prevents us from embracing it, and the simple practices in which we can have an embodied, intentional movement toward Shalom.

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In the third and final episode of our Sexual Abuse series, Dan and Rachael are joined by theologian Dr. Chelle Stearns. They discuss a difficult, and often controversial, topic of the ways in which Jesus fully took on humanity with all of its vulnerability, humiliation, and shame in order to suffer with us in those dark places and then bring redemption to them.

Please note: This is a sensitive topic and you may want to use discretion if you are listening with younger listeners.

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In the second episode of our series about sexual abuse, Dan and Rachael are joined by Linda Royster, licensed therapist and teaching staff at The Allender Center. 

Linda defines supremacy and the misuse of power as it relates to sexual abuse, violence, and racism, and how it is in direct opposition to true Shalom.

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Many of us encounter pornography at some point in our lives - often, our first exposure is during adolescence. Whether we encountered pornography intentionally or not, it is a form of sexual abuse that can lead to shame and a distorted view of our own desire. In an effort to stop living at war with our desire, and to redeem it, we need to understand our own sexual abuse stories.

This week, we’re joined by Jay Stringer, a licensed mental health counselor, ordained minister, and author of the award-winning book “Unwanted: How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing.” @jay_stringer_’s passion is to equip the church with resources to change the conversation on sexual brokenness. He shares with us some stories that can help us examine our own stories as we move towards redemption.

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We were honored to sit down for a conversation with Ian Morgan Cron, best-selling author and renowned Enneagram authority. 

In this conversation hosted by Dan and Rachael, @ianmorgancron shares how to use the Enneagram to push past old, stale stories and unlock inner power for both spiritual and personal growth. 

In this episode, you’ll gain new insight about how to rewrite broken narratives and step into becoming your authentic self.

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Are you ever officially “done” parenting your child when they become an adult? Listen to this insightful and playful conversation between this week’s guest, Amanda Christian, and her dad - Dr. Dan Allender.

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As an adult child, you have a very different relationship with your parents than you did in your youth. If we are given the privilege of having a relationship with our parents as they age, how does that relationship evolve in order for us to engage with them and care for them? 

Listen as Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen speak from their generational perspectives about the relationship between adult children and their parents throughout the aging process.

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We have all experienced some degree of trauma in our lives. If you’re married or partnered, you need to have a trauma informed partnership to be mindful of how our trauma stories and narratives impact our relationship.

In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender and Becky Allender are joined by Dr. Steve Call and Lisa Call to share their experiences in addressing personal trauma in the context of marriage.

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Many of us live in these “false Edens,” a space of being blissfully unaware that there is pain, heartache, and trauma which we must confront. When we consciously choose to engage our own stories and deconstruct these “false Edens” in which we’re living, we can move more freely into our calling to find true redemption on the other side.

Who better than to discuss this with us than this week’s podcast guest, Cary Umhau? Author, speaker, activist, and advocate for those facing homelessness and hunger, Cary knows what it is to step out of the constructs of

her life into living what she calls a “spacious life.” 

Listen as Dan Allender and Cathy Loerzel, co-authors of “Redeeming Heartache,” speak with Cary Umhau, author of “Burning Down the Fireproof Hotel” and find parallels between their work and their stories.

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This week, Cathy Loerzel is our impromptu host as she facilitates a conversation between Dan Allender and his friend of nearly five decades, Scotty Smith, a pastor, writer, and consultant. You’ll get to listen in on how we can engage our stories as we age and how we can share those stories with others over the years.

 

This conversation might make you feel like you’re sitting around a cozy table with close friends; we hope you enjoy it.

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During stressful seasons, taking a moment to care for yourself can help your body respond to the stress and find grounding. 

What does “grounding” mean? It’s engaging in practices that bring you back to your body and refocuses your thoughts when you may be experiencing the effects of stress, anxiety, or trauma.

Join Jeanette White, the Executive Director of the Allender Center, and Rachel Sanchez, the Manager of the Resilient Leaders Project at @theseattleschool to learn ways to find that moment of care for yourself. We think you’re going to love this one.

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Change is inevitable, and transitioning through change often holds together two realities: grief for things that have been lost and hope for what lies ahead. How do we navigate these transitions when it feels as if we’re wandering through the wilderness? Listen as Dan and Rachael talk with Jon DeWaal of Liminal Space about how we might approach walking through seasons of transition in our lives, one step at a time.

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With so many things fighting for our attention, how do we intentionally create space of goodness for ourselves and others? Join us as we contemplate what it means to focus on the things that matter as we begin this new year.

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How do we begin to process this past year and look forward to a new year when so many things feel beyond our control? In this special New Year’s Day edition, husband and wife duo Dan and Becky Allender discuss establishing rituals and rhythms that can keep us grounded and centered as we enter 2022.

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